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Talk:Haki
Rework this Entire page Ok, usually I don't pop into this Wiki because of the Extreme amount of Fanboyish Bias that exhists here, but I need to say this before this page confuses someone. The fact of the matter is that we know Next to nothing about "Ambition". (Haki in Japanese and Weaboo) I don't remember Reileigh, Hancock, or any of the Other Kuja for that matter saying ANYTHING about Ambition being some form of "Spirit Energy" that this wiki page flat out says it is. We know almost nothing about it, yet this page talks as though Oda's explained in an SBS that "Haki, being a holy untranslatable word, is the Way characters can tell how powerful Each other are, and Luffy's is OVER NINE THOUSAAAAND!!". This ENTIRE article should be rewritten so that it's all speculative, because the way I see it, this is probabily going to end up being nothing more than characters literally imposing their Ambition or their Will onto their opponent, and being able to predict the movements of a weaker-willed opponent and it literally won't be a power at all.98.165.238.23 :What is mostly stated in the article is what is shown and known. True we don't know much and true it isn't exactly spirit energy like in Dragon Ball, however the way its been used appears to be based from the same original basis the whole other anime and manga are based on. :Chi, as its been originally been viewed in real life, can be used by certain people to knock other people down without touching them. They're basically throwing some internal unseen force from their body at their opponents. Whether this is real or not is another matter, this concept is what Haki's main and first uses appear to be based on. :Though it may turn out no more like you said, the fact it got some emphasis means that it may turn out to be something more. Also just because its not a visible flashy thing like in Naruto or Dragon Ball, doesn't mean its not spirit energy. I mean the Force is an invisible concept yet its considered similar in concept with Dragon Ball's Ki.Mugiwara Franky 14:41, 3 February 2009 (UTC) ::So, what you're saying is basically "Yeah, it can go either way, but I think it's this way so that's how it is" then? Ah, like I thought, Fanboy Bias. We know Pretty much NOTHING about it, so this article should reflect that, just in case there are people who take the things this Wiki say as fact, it will confuse them.98.165.238.23 :::It's not Fanboy bias but basis on what is presented. Haki, as far as it has been shown, resembles a form of Spirit Energy. How else can one explain the whole knocking people out with one's own ambition? The whole concept of Haki in fact appears to based on the original concept of Chi. How can one not say it resembles anything else? :::We are just writing here what is known. When more facts come, then it will be changed to clear up confusions. If you can provide a better explanation to be used in the article then please provide, cause complaining how much fanboyish and confusing this article is ain't much help if you can't provide anything else.Mugiwara Franky 08:36, 4 February 2009 (UTC) ::::I like to point out that its translatable to "Spirit" anyway as well as ambition, so its a form of "spirit energy" whether you like it or now by that translation. And please, sign your posts with ~~~~ it makes it easier to follow conversatins knowing where your speech ends! One-Winged Hawk 10:04, 4 February 2009 (UTC) ::::It's literally the Character's Ambition and Will being stronger than the others, so they're able to intimidate the other, or read the weaker-willed person's Moves. That's all it is. 11:08, 4 February 2009 (UTC) :::::Marguerite and the other Kuja infused their arrows with Haki to make the arrows more destructive. It's obviously more than that as you can't intimidate or read arrows.Mugiwara Franky 11:22, 4 February 2009 (UTC) ::::::I'm not saying "I know what it is" I'm saying "There are differing theories as to what it is". Nobody knows, everything we have now on it is pretty much speculation as to what Ambition is based on what we've seen so far, which is very very little. All I'm saying is, this section needs to be rewritten to be speculative instead of outright stating things about it as fact. as in, Instead of "It's Spirit Energy" maybe "It's a mysterious ability that some have theorized is some form of Spirit Energy". My problem isn't with the theory, but the fact that the theory is presented as if it were known fact. Once Oda tells us "Ambition is ______" Then this section can be solidified, but it needs to be speculative until we KNOW what Ambition is. ::::::Maybe rework the whole page to refer to it as a Mystery Ability (Basically take the Luffy approach to it) and then add a "Speculation and Theories" section about what it may be. 06:48, 6 February 2009 (UTC) :::::::Looking at the article, it seems it's just the first sentence of the page, "'''Haki (覇気) is a form of spirit energy of sorts that only a few characters can use.'", that you have a problem with and not the whole page. Except for this sentence, most of the page doesn't seem to explicitly state that Haki is Spirit Energy. It mostly states facts and stuff that is known. As for the sentence itself, it somewhat seems speculative and ambiguous due to the ''"'of sorts'"'' part. It's like it's not definite on the concept. There seems to be no need to completely rework the page entirely. Maybe the sentence if it irks you but not the entire page.Mugiwara Franky 12:52, 6 February 2009 (UTC) ::::::::There, Left pretty much everything alone, just made a few additions to clarify how little is actually known and that it's mostly fan speculation that it's some form of Spirit Energy. 03:02, 7 February 2009 (UTC) ::Haki was first identified here by Hatchan which is where everything started rolling in.Mugiwara Franky 04:29, 7 February 2009 (UTC) I must say from parts of the way that you wrote, you either think that everything that was originally written was made from pure speculation, or you didn't research deeply. Despite Haki not yet fully explained in detail by Oda in the manga or the SBS, there is actually alot of stuff that has been shown about it. Let me list down the evidences. *http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/1/42/ First use of Haki by Shanks (note: appears to be initially intimidation at this point) *http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/434/04/, http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/434/05/ Shanks dropping Whitebeard's weaker men *http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/495/16/, http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/495/17/ Luffy using Haki against Motobaro *http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/500/18/ Rayleigh using Haki on Disco (note: Disco is not paying attention on Rayleigh meaning it's more than intimidation) *http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/500/19/ Giant figuring out that the burst of "'SPIRIT'" that hit Disco was from Rayleigh *http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/503/14/ Shalulai being hit by Haki by Rayleigh (note: again victim's focus is not on Rayleigh) *http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/503/18-19/ Rayleigh hitting everyone but a select few *http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/504/11/ Hatchan identifying what Rayleigh did was Haki (note: this means all previous instances of this happening must be Haki also) *http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/515/13/, http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/515/14/ Kuja arrows exploding upon impact *http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/516/06/ Marguerite stating that her tribe infuses Haki to make arrows stronger *http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/08/, http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/10/ Marigold and Sandersonia using Haki *http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/17/, http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/18/ Luffy using Haki and his level identified This means that we don't know '''NOTHING' about Haki but we at least know SOMETHINGS about it.Mugiwara Franky 05:24, 7 February 2009 (UTC) :We do know SOME Things, but for example, the thing Shanks did in the beginning of the series was never stated to be Ambition, for all we know it could be something like Mantra where he did something different that just brings about the same result. About the "Burst of Spirit", that was a translators Choice. all that's said is "Haki", the translator just didn't know how to fit "Ambition" into the scene in context so they changed it to Spirit. besides, it doesn't mean Spirit "Energy" just spirit as in Fighting spirit. Again, not saying I'm right, just that there are other ways to interpret the information we have. For example, I'm positive that all this is is the characters imposing the conviction of their ambition onto others. Yes, even the Arrow thing. Why is that? Let me explain it this way: in this Manga, Sanji uses an attack that literally lights his leg on fire. How the hell does that work? Why does it not Burn him? Why does it not Even burn his CLOTHES?! When Oda was asked, his answer was "The Fire in Sanji's heart burns hotter than the fire on his leg". SOMEHOW the fire in Sanji's heart was able to keep the fire from not only Burning HIM, but his PANTS TOO!! In a Manga where THAT can happen, people imposing their will into their weapons isn't really a stretch 06:12, 7 February 2009 (UTC) Preposed move I prepose we move this from "spirit energy" to its Japanese name of "Haki". Mainly becayse we use the Japanese name for everything else on this site already. One-Winged Hawk 08:17, 12 October 2008 (UTC) :Agreed. Besides, "ambition" is a better translation than "spirit energy" anyway. So it should be moved to something else no matter what. -- 08:23, 12 October 2008 (UTC) The Force? I've been thinking that a lot of the image of Haki being regards the willpower of the user feels more like some aspects of "The Force" in Star Wars than merely just Ki such as in Dragonball. While DB does have some aspects of this, I actually was thinking of adding references to that if permitted with the way both does have the "willpower" aspect in influencing or affecting others. -StrangerAtaru 17:00, 24 October 2008 (UTC) : Wait a few more chapters I'd say for more info. One-Winged Hawk 17:42, 24 October 2008 (UTC) :now that you said that, it also resambles the reiatsu in bleach which is their spiritual power D.Sneasel 22:48, 28 October 2008 (UTC) :In regards to the force, a quick reread of some old uni notes I had somewhere... The Force is just a reharsh of a lot of "chi" things that have been around for centuries. Star Wars was based a lot on some guys notes on religion. I remembered a tutor at uni mentioning the BBC asking her to do a program on physociology and being told she can't because the guy was sensitive due to cult links. She turned round and said "Yet you are prepared to show Stars Wars which is all based on the guy's ideas?". One-Winged Hawk 07:55, 29 October 2008 (UTC) Shanks with Haoushoku I'm pretty sure Shanks has the Haoushoku ability, as well. One Piece Chapter 434. :It seems like it but unless stated, it can also be speculated that he has a higher form. P.S. please sign your comments with "~~~~" Mugiwara Franky 23:24, 24 October 2008 (UTC) ::Some say Rayleigh has it too, however, we're jumping to conclusions if we scream out "Haoushoku!" at every big Haki user. We need more info! One-Winged Hawk 19:06, 25 October 2008 (UTC) :::Agreed. Just because Luffy knocked out some people with Haoushoku, that doesn't mean every time someone was knocked out by haki, it was Haoushoku. If Rayleigh and Shanks have it, Roger probably does too, and three people with a one-in-millions attribute on the same crew seems ridiculous. Not impossible of course, but it's too much of a stretch to assume it's true based on so little. -- 19:55, 25 October 2008 (UTC) ::::When Rayleigh used his Haki, it had the same, for lack of a better word, 'line' effect (Many lines stretching away from the centre of the panel) as luffy had when he used his Haoushoku. In Romance Dawn, the effect is not used by Shanks. Also I think it's quite likely three one-in-millions people to be in Gol D. Roger's crew. Haoushoku seems a very powerful weapon, and I wouldn't be suprised that people with it rise to great things, such as being in the Pirate King's Crew. Not going to add anyone to the list however, until confirmation. People are still adding Shanks and Rayleigh to the list... Why can't we wait for confirmation on more Haki info? One-Winged Hawk 09:47, 10 November 2008 (UTC) It was stated that rayleigh used haki in the auction house and we can probably assume that shanks used haki on the lord of the coast :Right thought, wrong subject. Also sign your posts with "~~~~" please.One-Winged Hawk 20:47, 14 August 2009 (UTC) :: I had an interesting thought on the Shanks and Rayleigh having Haoushoku Haki or not debate. We have several instances ::where it is directly stated in manga regular haki is used or haki is explained to have such an effect. ::Haki makes blows and weapons stronger: 'omg luffy punched the cat that hard without haki' and the arrows being made ::stronger with haki ::To allow for a person to hurt a devil fruit user: the two younger Boa sisters hurting Luffy with bludgeoning attacks which ::is stated to be haki ::To predict attacks: Younger Boa sisters are explained to use it to predict attacks ::There is only one singular time that anything is called Haoushoku Haki and that is when Luffy used it to knock out the ::Kuja. The way the Kuja state it implies heavily that what gave them the clue that it was Haoushoku Haki was the effect. ::Just look at chap 519 page page 18 again. One of them states "Could this be?" Aother "the warriors are fainting" Another ::"Just now that was Haoushoku Haki" Another " No way only a one in a million people is capable of using the haki of the ::chosen one" ::One of the Boa sisters" I've never seen a person aside from ane-sama who could use it" (who could use it implies he was ::using it) ::One more important thing I almost left out. When Marco states that shank's haki is as strong as ever that does not mean he ::was using regular haki. A little like how Ace's line to Luffy didn't mean there was an actual pirate summit this can ::easily be misinterpreted as out right stating Shanks was only using regular haki. Marco stated "His haki is as strong as ::ever" which is a little like saying "Hi kick is as strong as ever" when a more exacting statement would be "his super ::ultra deluxe round house kick of death is as strong as ever" or "his sword is as sharp as ever" actually meaning "his ::sandai kitetsu is as able to cut through things as it ever was". WHile it doesn't necessarily imply that it could not have ::been haki it also doesn't imply it could not have been haoushoku haki. ::Keep in mind this is just one person point of view right or not. Nor does my stating this imply that I think it should be ::outright stated in the wiki that this is the case. At most it could stated that this might be the case or is hinted to be ::the case. Immolo 22:51, September 2, 2009 (UTC) Hancock's mastery After much debate about Hancock's last line in chapter 519, Aohige finally confirmed that she said Luffy hadn't mastered Haohshoku, not herself. http://apforums.net/showpost.php?p=977136&postcount=254 He's a Japanese native and a very reliable translator, so we should fix anything that says she hasn't mastered it. -- 20:01, 25 October 2008 (UTC) *Backed by stephen's translation. http://www.mangascreener.com/stephen/onepiece/chapter519.txt -- 02:11, 27 October 2008 (UTC) right her http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/19/ it says even i havent mastered it myself luffy doesnt know about haki so i dont think he said it and the only other person is hancock READ :Just confirming this as it was never settled and I don't want this to get a chance to really be picked up; don't trust onemanga.com completely. It takes the first reasonable translated scan it gets and almost never updates unless to up quality normally. This means inital bad translations never get fixed. That translation in THIS case is wrong. I'm noting this because every so often, someone takes that incorrect onemanga.com translation as FACT when its not. It gets really dull really fast. :Also, please can I take a moment to remind everyone to sign your posts with "~~~~, its considered proper mannerism, and can be taken as rude if you don't sign. Plus it helps to track a conversation. One-Winged Hawk 20:44, 14 August 2009 (UTC) Gol D. Roger I say that Gol D. Roger was a user. I am pretty sure that he use "Haki" to win allot of is battles! Young Piece 22:48, 2 February 2009 (UTC) :Not the slightest hint he had or had not yet... YP, please be aware the rules here aren't the same as Fanons, we can't write speculation on or open chaty discussions. Annoy = very. But its like that for a reason. :-( One-Winged Hawk 00:01, 3 February 2009 (UTC) I know all the rules I was just saying what I was thinking! Is that breaking the rules? And I know that is not stated or that you and all the other user know I know! Young Piece 02:51, 3 February 2009 (UTC) :This is not a forum. 04:12, 3 February 2009 (UTC) ::Thank you random IP adress but thats not helpful you know... Okay lets make it clear here: it is not against it, we can't punish you for doing it, but we wholely discourage it. The talk pages are for discussing the content of the articles. If it clutters up with forumish talk then we've got problems. :-( One-Winged Hawk 10:10, 4 February 2009 (UTC) Yes this is not a Forum, but this is a talk page and I am talking about Gol D. Roger and what I think and I wont put it on the Haki page because it's not confermed. Young Piece 20:01, 3 February 2009 (UTC) Speculation? Isn't it pure speculation that Shanks used Haki in the first chapter? When is it ever said that it is? It seems to me that after the concept of Haki was introduced, people said "oh...this, this, and this must have been Haki." While I personally would agree that Shanks used Haki to save Luffy, and when he brought Whitebeard's crew to their knees, it is never said to be Haki and is therefore speculative. Same goes for Rayleigh fighting Kizaru. The article should say "It is believed that 'x,' 'y,' and 'z' are examples of Haki use, but none have been confirmed." 14:30, 13 March 2009 (UTC) :The one with Rayleigh hitting Kizaru maybe abit speculative at the moment but the one with Shanks is definitely Haki. It's not stated but common sense based on the following circumstances. :#Shanks stared down the eel in the first chapter. :#Luffy stared down Duval's bull similar to how Shank's stared down the eel. :#The bull was knocked out. :#Rayleigh knocked out several people in the same manner in the Auction House. :#The technique of knocking people out in that manner is identified as Haki by Hatchan. :By simple common sense and deductions based on this, the thing that Shanks did was definitely Haki. It doesn't have to be necessarily be said to be identified as Haki.Mugiwara Franky 14:51, 13 March 2009 (UTC) ::If such a method of deduction is required, it should be stated that that is how one would come to that conclusion. Furthermore, if Haki is identified as knocking someone out in such a manner, then what Shanks did would not be Haki because the eel was not knocked out. I think your line of reasoning is weak, but more importantly, weak enough to merit its inclusion so a reader can draw his or her own conclusion. Or, as a simpler alternative, saying that it is speculation. As I said before, I too think that all those examples are Haki, but there is no hard evidence for any of them. I think the introduction should state how little is known about Haki and that there are numerous examples that are speculated to be Haki. Then in the examples section, the title should read "speculated examples of haki use". Its not a huge change, but it would be a lot more encyclopedia-ish. 15:29, 13 March 2009 (UTC) :::The eel indeed was not shown to be knocked out but since the way it fled is the same as the way Motobaro fled, its pretty much the same thing.Mugiwara Franky 15:59, 13 March 2009 (UTC) OH, OH, we can add this to you list; in chapter 536, Luffy stares down all of the wolves in a very similar fasion resembling shank's stare down with the Lord of the Coast --Kingluffy1 22:33, 19 March 2009 (UTC) :I think we should presume Haki levels not only have abilities but strength until proven otherwise... One-Winged Hawk 23:10, 19 March 2009 (UTC) Adding shanks used haki in chapter one sound very bias and something a fan wants to believe rather than actual fact. I think it's more suited as "it is highly believed". I mean it could be like zoro's devil stare or does that mean zoro can use haki now or anyone that scares someone with a stare are haki users too? Again you don't need to look into someone's eye to invoke haki proven by rayleigh. Another, haki (in the anime) always has some kind of nose or wind to it. Oda-sensei might has well said to the anime staff that haki has sound effect were as there wasn't any wind effects when the episode. What I am tring to say is there are facts saying that shanks did use haki and there are also facts saying he might not have. I think it's best you guys change that part until oda-sensei says it was in an sbs or shanks or someone says it was in future chapters. I'm sure more and more people are going to keep questioning that part of the article until it's changed supported by how long this discussion is already. Didn't luffy knockout those wolfs and the byson? hasn't every animal been knockout after haki was confirmed with the stare I might add. Like the previous people said "your reasoning is weak" and that part in the article is Speculation. Thank you for your time. You're the only one who has ever questioned it. Nobody else will because it was obviously Haki so it will never be changed. Also who is this Oda-sensei that you mentioned? I only know who Oda is. Drunk Samurai 00:04, September 7, 2009 (UTC) I'm not the first. it wasn't confirmed has haki so it's still just Speculation."obviously" isn't good enough to make it haki. It's only a bias suggestion that isn't a fact, simply because you want the first chapter to be a connection. I was expecting a better post. come on??? I'll never trust this wikia again, when you don't even know people call every published manga-ka by sensei has a show of respect. I'm never coming here again. Now I finally understand why people don't trust wiki. wait... wait. you don't put zoro has the first mate because it hasn't been confirmed by luffy but you put chapter one has haki when that hasn't been confirmed to be haki by shanks or someone WTF??????? No more Garp Haki please... I've been sick of this for a while and someone misusing the report function to bring it up there instead of here (its else where anyway had the reporter bothered to read around). Okay lets get it out of the way shall we: Its the same effect Nami has on Luffy. Now, please, for the love of all sanity... Please can we stop with the posting as speculation thats already confirmed as fact in a different way. Yes, he likely DOES know Haki of some sort, HOWEVER his punching of Luffy is not an example of Haki and so to date we simply cannot say the may have Haki.One-Winged Hawk 07:38, 24 March 2009 (UTC) :The Fist of Love is a clear example of Garp's Haki. Garp's attitude and love for Luffy let's him punch him in a way that negates Luffy's DF power. And yes, this IS the same effect as Nami's punches. Haki is all about how people act. Nami REALLY IS DETERMINED to make Luffy learn a lesson. Her haki -- attitude and determination -- manifests in her ability to make Luffy's face swell up with punches. It's comedy, from our perspective. What does that matter? ::IF its not stated, it can't be taken as fact. (also sign your posts with "~~~~" please).One-Winged Hawk 20:46, 14 August 2009 (UTC) Zoro's Haki? I'm just wondering...am I the only one who doesn't agree that Zoro has haki? Is it really confirmed? He doesn't knock anyone out with it or anything and he's been doing stuff like that forever. I say its just intimidation. --Goddess6 04:15, 14 April 2009 (UTC) i think it just his fearful eyes--Coldhandzz 07:43, 14 April 2009 (UTC) --14 april:Loetjeh, I think Zoro doesn't have haki and I don't understand why they put it in the article because many people see these information as facts. It clearly are no facts because it never has been confirmed and I've read the manga, watched the anime and never seen Zoro using haki only scaring people off with his Devel-like look which he even did in episode 5 or something with some pirates of the buggy crew. The battle at the Saobady Archipolago ( yes I just can't write it )was the best proof of haki but it was anime-only, so I think you should remove it or add ( maybe ) because it's very likely that in further events Zoro will have haki. ( I'm no native English speaker ) I think we should put "Possibly" in front of Zoro since we don't know if Asura is a form of Haki or not. gohanRULEZ 07:31, 8 May 2009 (UTC) Automated transfer of Problem Report #20152 The following message was left by Anonymous via on 2009-03-24 06:46:36 UTC Under the section "Known Users," you have not mentioned that Luffy's Grandfather may have the power of Haki. Back in Water 7, Luffy's Grandfather, Vice-Admiral Garp of the Marines, punched Luffy while he was sleeping. Luffy then cried out in pain claiming that "It hurts! It hurts! The punches from Grandpa always hurt!" This surprised the other crew members because Luffy was rubber and normal physical attacks do not affect him. Two Things 1,Is Luffy a where of his Haki power? 2.Can Setomaru use it? gohanRULEZ 06:52, 9 June 2009 (UTC) No to both. MizukiGinZoro 23:54, 2 August 2009 (UTC) Rokushiki and swordsmanship Is it possible that Rokushiki and swordsmanship are connected to haki? with CP9 Members they channel their energy through their bodies to preform the six skills (Rokushiki). Swordsman like Roronoa Zoro, Dracule Mihawk and Ryuuma can channel their energy through their swords and their bodies. :Not exactly. Rokushiki and swordsmanship are simply martial arts and discipline. They are the result of constant physical training. Haki on the other hand, is something else.Mugiwara Franky 02:57, 26 August 2009 (UTC)